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!votescramble

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself' started by Protean, Mar 28, 2009.

  1. Protean

    Protean New Member

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    more than half the time i play on Badwater/Goldrush, the teams are stacked, in terms of skill
    players on one team will have so many more points (in both round wins and in just individual points). it makes it impossible for the underdog team to have a chance of winning

    whenever someone tries to start a votescramble, it never gets passed

    what's the point?
     
  2. Batman

    Batman Guest

    Welcome to No Heroes?
     
  3. Hills

    Hills Server Admin
    VIP

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    Well...

    1). This isn't the right forum for such a question. This is the introduction's thread.

    and

    2). Are you getting better playing against better/stronger teams? Or are you rage quitting every time?
     
  4. Zind

    Zind KING OF CHAT
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    Best intro ever.
     
  5. Chewy

    Chewy New Member

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    I heartily agree.

    Besides, getting steamrolled is something we all experience once in a while.
     
  6. Protean

    Protean New Member

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    oh my bad, i didn't know where else to post this

    and yeah, of course. whenever a team is stacked, i !swapteam so i can be on the losing team. more challenging.
    i don't ragequit

    HI!
     
  7. [BLU]Rish

    [BLU]Rish New Member

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    tats moar like it
    hi!
     
  8. Primus Ave

    Primus Ave New Member

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    That's the spirit! welcome to NH forums.
     
  9. Savage

    Savage Head Admins
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    Well now, welcome to No Heroes.

    The votescramble threshold is set at 65%. I set it higher than 50% simply because I personally believe that no one ever improves their skill level by playing a weaker team. having it take any less votes than that simply means all the players that suck will continue to try and scramble teams in the hopes of forcing the stronger players onto their team to make up for their inherent weakness...as opposed to doing what they need to do (work as a team, etc). Personally, I don't believe there is such a thing as a 'stacked" team. There are strong teams, and weak teams. Weak teams never get better by allowing themselves to be carried by stronger players.
     
  10. Protean

    Protean New Member

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    good point. it's probably because i enjoy playing on the losing team that i'm getting progressively better.
    occasionally though, when the pattern of continual domination emerges, VIPs will often swapteam onto the winning one, leaving the games like 16v8 or something. one time, i saw a 18v6. that's a different story though.

    anyway, i love these servers. it's why i renewed my subscription :cool:
     
  11. Truckincowboy

    Truckincowboy Head Admin
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    well welcome protean and glad you enjoy the servers.
    And don't worry man only makes you stronger when you get your ass handed to you.
     
  12. Shwigity

    Shwigity Guest

    The ridiculous one-sided (in terms of numbers like the 18v6 game you described) aren't common, and it ends up autobalancing the non-VIPs eventually. Really everytime I've seen someone yell "TEAMSTACKERS!" and try to votescramble the team they're on has about 3 pyros too many and 3-4 medics too few.

    Oh and welcome. :grin: (I think I remember you killing me a bunch on Badwater when I was practicing for the scrim lol)
     
  13. Hiroyuki Sakai

    Hiroyuki Sakai New Member

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    These "adapt and lrn2play" theories works just fine for mirror maps, like Warpath. But for defense maps it just doesn't really apply. There's usually some swapping to stay on perma-defense, which creates constant auto-balance turnover. So organization and class balancing feels perpetually pointless, as any good combo will get broken up pretty quick. There is a huge incentive to stack defense and meatgrind the offense. Most nights on dustbowl the stacked team reaches critical mass so that defense swapping ceases, and it at least gives the scrub-team a chance to develop some semblance of medic ratio.

    It's not "omg always terrible, somebody call the wahbulance". But teamstacking on a map like goldrush or dustbowl is an entirely different animal from 2fort or warpath. I don't really see a way around it (unless there was a timer on swapping, to prevent the perma-defenders), but stacking is very different on a defense oriented map from what's usually discussed. There is a more natural incentive to teamstack on defense, and the results have negative consequences that "learn2play" doesn't really address.


    ...


    Oh yeah, and hi welcome to NH :p
     
  14. GlaDOS V1.09

    GlaDOS V1.09 New Member

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    Adapt and learn to play works find on defensive maps. I did it before I became VIP. BTW I swap when the team shows no initiative, and won't listen when I say something helpful, like GET ON THE CART! to prevent a cap. And they stand there. Or medics who won't heal me when Im standing right beside me... You get the point.

    You learn how to defend, and what doesn't work, and you learn how to attack and what does work.
     
  15. Shwigity

    Shwigity Guest

    I guess I've never played enough non-symmetrical maps to notice this happening. Usually the "teamstacking" complaints seem to be aimed at groups of players/friends that usually play together thus have better communication. I'm not really sure what you're talking about as far as "class balance feeling perpetually pointless" or with the medic ratios. If people aren't reacting fast with swapping to the classes needed or whatever that's on the fault of the players then. Obviously on an attack/defend type map turtling is more prominent because you really have no incentive to push back besides getting them to lay off your Sentries and defenses, which if you're locked down well enough isn't an issue. It seems with most attack/defend style maps when you're on offense and this happens you need to stack ubers or the game is already lost. If the Medics keep dying (which I know happens a lot) you need to try to keep the front line overhealed while their on the way there, while playing conservatively and not going into the fray until it's time to push out.
     
  16. Hiroyuki Sakai

    Hiroyuki Sakai New Member

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    That's the theory, but it just isn't true for defense maps + swapping.

    Let's say you're on defense and easily win the round. Now you're on offense, except that 2 players swap to be back on perma-defense. So uhhh... who's going to be what class to fill in for their value? You don't know, because you're not going to get teammates autobalanced over until after the round starts, ie. after your uber rush fails facing 13 v. 15. There is no "learn to adapt" or whatever, it's just a constant mix of the teams AFTER the initial clash that makes or breaks a defense's cap1 turtle. I can face the stacked team all night, getting pwned while giving rabbit the ol' chop chop. It's when a couple guys are swapping to be perma-defense that totally fubars the system.


    TLDCare: I agree with the "learn2play" philosophy for static teams, even on defense maps. It's the swapping of the stacks that fucks it all up.
     
  17. GlaDOS V1.09

    GlaDOS V1.09 New Member

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    Like Savage said, there is no such thing as a stacked team. The 's 's and 's are all FRIENDS. So we play together most of the time.
     
  18. Aix

    Aix Senior Server Admin
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    QFT.

    I'm not sure if this thread is in response to this past Sunday night when the team I was on continuously ran roughshod over the opposing defenders/attackers but I saw plenty of non-VIP players that night and we still dominated. On one game of Badwater I ubercharged the same non-VIP soldier with Kritz every time and he took direction like a champ! When I said "hit the cart" he annihilated everyone on the cart, when I said 'load up" he'd take some cover and load up, then we'd hit 'em again. I saw no reason to !swap because I was having a blast, and our team certainly wasn't an allstar VIP cast.

    A frustrating thing on payload maps is that many players don't realize that you need to be ON THE CART to stop it: a team can win if they constantly apply pressure and inch the cart along.

    Also, using !swapteam when your team is about to lose is just strange, especially if you actually think you "won" by doing so.
     
  19. Hiroyuki Sakai

    Hiroyuki Sakai New Member

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    Jesus Christ, I AM NOT SAYING THE SLIGHTEST WORD AGAINST STACKED TEAMS. For examples: a 12 man team of versus random scrubs all night long is fine and I am not complaining. Hence my quote that you didn't read before responding...

    I'm talking about people swapping multiple times to stay on the "good" side of a non-symmetrical map. Defense is much better stat-wise and it's a huge temptation for people. That screws up gameplay, and no amount of "learn2play" fixes it when autobalance kicks in after the initial uber rush.

    I feel like I need Venn diagrams or something so you all get what I'm talking about. When teams become super stacked it actually fixes the problem, because the statwhores are better off sticking with the stacked team rather than swapping based on the map.
     
  20. Darth Cyrax

    Darth Cyrax New Member

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    What does this have to do with votescrambe or introducing one's self?