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Heavy Guide

Discussion in 'Strategy Guides' started by Krimp, Jan 1, 2009.

  1. Krimp

    Krimp VIP Supporter
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    Seeing as one wasn't posted and Heavy is one of my most played classes, I figured I'd give it a try.


    Basic Info:
    Class: Heavy
    Type: Defensive
    Health: 300
    Speed: 77%
    (27% while spun up)
    (0% while spun up and crouched)

    Weapons:

    Minigun
    Natascha
    Shotgun
    Sandvich
    Fists
    Killing Gloves of Boxing

    Recommended Weapon Setup:

    Minigun
    Shotgun
    Fists

    The minigun is superior to Natascha against almost every class. Natascha is perhaps better against Scouts and Pyros, but due to your damage being cut by a 4th, the minigun is almost always better in every situation.

    The Sandvich can occasionally be useful if there's no medics around, but the shotgun has a ton more uses, the primary use being you have a gun you can fire without slowing down to a snail's pace, which means you can actually dodge things. Yes, the Heavy is slow, but when he isn't spun-up, he not that slow. The shotgun is most useful in 1 on 1 affairs, sometimes moreso than the minigun.

    When it comes to melee, it really comes down to personal preference. I prefer fists due to the faster attack speed, but sometimes the crits from the KGBS can be a life-saver. Unless you're trying to embarrass an opponent, you shouldn't be using your melee anyway.

    Offense Alone: Playing offensively without a Medic is actually pretty difficult. Heavies may have a lot of life, but they take damage quickly, meaning you won't last long if the enemy knows you're there. If you do intend to go on the offense, go with your team so they can draw fire and distract enemies. Not much to say on this, sadly.

    Offense with Medic: Much easier since you won't die practically instantly. The importance here is to keep your Medic safe and not to rush things. Check your back frequently for Spies or anything that may attack your Medic. Never make huge pushes without an uber. Camp an area near the frontlines with a lot of cover until it's ready. Most importantly, know when to back off. It's better to leave a few enemies alive then die and have to start your push all over. Heavy's not a quick class and won't reach the frontlines again quickly without a teleporter.

    Defense Alone: Sometimes difficult, but much easier than offense. Simply stay near a source of health, preferably somewhere near the frontlines so you're not completely useless. Heavies are very helpful at protecting sentry nests due to the fact they can just sit at a dispenser and spam their minigun without ever running out of ammo.

    Defense with Medic: A complete pain in the ass for enemies, as you're not too far from invincible. Same tactics as defense alone, but you probably don't need to be near a source of health this time. Don't expect to get Medics to stick around much though. They'd usually prefer to heal teammates at the frontlines.

    Protecting your Medic: It's honestly not that hard. Simply check your back often and most enemies can't even get near your Medic. Heavies are very reliable Medic buddies. Pyros, Scouts, and Spies like to suicide rush you and your Medic in hopes of killing one of you, so be sure to kill them quick if they're getting close. Other classes are usually more of a threat to you than him.

    Vs Scout: Hardly a threat if you have a Medic, but if you don't, they may be able to take you down due to the fact they can get close to you and still be able to dodge your attacks. You may be able to out shotgun them, but it's recommended you use your minigun against them, even if it does make you easier to hit.

    Vs Soldier: Unless they crit, they're not as bad as people think. If you have a Medic, the minigun should be able to take care of them fine. If you're by yourself, I recommend the shotgun. If you're a good shot, you can take down a Soldier pretty quickly, and best of all, you are sometimes able to sometimes dodge his rockets, while if you're using the minigun, the chances of a Soldier missing any range except long are slim

    Vs Pyro: Shotgun is not recommended. Always use the minigun on them. They're almost no threat to you long range, though they can occasionally hit you with a flare, which is annoying. If they're playing smart and staying as far away as possible, I imagine it couldn't hurt to shoot them with the shotgun a few times to make him charge you or flee, but the moment he starts rushing, start firing on him with the minigun. Even with a Medic you don't want him near you, because one lick of flames to your Medic is almost a guaranteed 70 life gone.

    Vs Demo: These guy are actually pretty big threats. I actually don't recommend using the minigun against him unless he has teammates around because when spun up, his highly dangerous pipes and stickies have an easy time hitting you. With the shotgun, the Demos explosive are much much easier to avoid and you can down him in only a few shots. To add insult to injury, sometimes you can punch him out as well.

    Vs Heavy: Other Heavies are always top priority as they can damage you and quickly. The way I see it, if an enemy Heavy starts firing on you first, even if you have a Medic and he doesn't, he'll win, so kill these guys as quick as possible with your minigun. Other than that, no real strategy.

    Vs Engineer: On his own, he's nothing. Punch him out if you'd like. Against his sentry, things are a lot more difficult. A level 1 you can probably destroy if you're close enough, even if the Engineer is repairing it. Trying to destroy a level 2 isn't recommended unless the Engineer isn't around. A level 3, don't bother unless you have an uber. You might be able to get a level 3 from a corner if the Engineer is missing, but it's difficult. Killing sentries isn't really your job anyway. Leave that to Demomen and Soldiers.

    Vs Medic: Very small threat. If you're by yourself, the needles can pack a punch, but it's very unlikely you'll die unless you're careless.

    Vs Sniper: This is never a pleasant encounter due to Snipers being a Heavy's biggest threat. To minimize confrontation with one, travel in closed areas, as most Snipers hate them due to the difficulty to avoid rocket spam often aimed at them. If a Sniper is blocking your only path and is really intent on blowing your head off, approach him while zig-zagging, jumping, and shooting him with your shotgun. It makes aiming very difficult for him. When you get close, let loose with your minigun. The Sniper's secondary is practically harmless, and his melee isn't an issue unless it crits.

    Vs Spy: As long as you're alert, all but very good Spies aren't much of a threat. If you do run into one, feel free to punch him out if you'd like to embarrass him. Otherwise, a couple shots from the shotgun will do him in. Occasionally they'll suicide rush you with the knife hoping for a facestab, but that tactic rarely succeeds.

    I did leave out some of my tactics(such as what to do when ubered and how to handle enemy ubers), but eh, I figure I should keep a few things secret. I don't want to deal with too many enemy Heavies.
     
  2. AGrue

    AGrue Guest

    Nice guide. I too saw the need to show the heavy some love, but it looks like you beat me to it. I agree with your weapons recommendations, I don't really have a preference fists vs KGB, since I never use melee.

    A few suggestions of my own:
    Always have your barrel down going around corners near the front lines. Nothing sucks more than find a pyro or soldier in your face and not having your gun ready.

    On defense, try to find a confined area to guard. Examples include the right stairs on CP 2 of dustbowl 1. The left covered area in front of CP 2 on Dustbowl 2 (by the two sets of health/ammo packs) and the tunnel of Dustbowl 3 (especially on offense to guard against pyros/etc. trying to get behind your team). In these locations you will always be fighting enemies in front of you at close range, a battle you are guaranteed to win barring extremely lucky crits or absolute lack of coordination.

    On the same theme of being in confined areas, if you are in one of these (or similar) locations, bodyblock ubers. Due to your high hp, even if you aren't overhealed you can significantly delay an uber, hopefully saving the SGs up ahead. This is particularly good against soldiers and demos (as opposed to pyro/heavy that will just rape you). It takes 2 rockets (barring crits) to kill a heavy at full, after which the soldier only has 2 more shots before he has to start reloading. Similarly, it takes demos a bit of time to kill a heavy. It is amazing how many times an ubered demo has just stood in front of me for seconds, just hoping I will move so he doesn't have to waste his ammo. (Or, even sillier, taken out his bottle to do the job.)

    Stickies can be your friend. You are almost always running short of ammo (if not you aren't doing your job right), so any additional source is welcome. Busted stickies are just that source. In a location like the main tunnel in Warpath, the continuous stream of stickies means that with a few choice shots you can almost always refill your ammo without having to retreat to a dispenser.
     
  3. Krimp

    Krimp VIP Supporter
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    Yeah, those are all good suggestions. I usually don't feel the need to sacrifice myself when an enemy ubers, but I can see the reasoning behind it. I notice if you're doing exceptionally well, and have the guy who's ubered dominated or something, they'll completely ignore a sentry nest in favor of killing you instead. It's both amusing and frustrating at the same time.

    But yeah, something I really should have mentioned but did not is that corners are your best friend. It's easy to round them with your gun already spun-up, and they provide great cover for when it looks like you're in over your head and need to be healed.

    For a good example of a very Heavy-friendly area, I'd go with the sewers of 2fort. Sharp corners, and narrow tunnels so Snipers are rare, as well as enemies having a difficult time evading your minigun fire.
     
  4. Hills

    Hills Server Admin
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    Great guide, Krimp. NIce work.

    Whistle's... where is that Demo guide ... :)
     
  5. Synngry

    Synngry New Member

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    On the opposite side, medic's like heavies who notice that they are standing on 4 crit stickies or somthing, just because your killing something doesnt mean you cant be aware.

    and also killing the pyro thats running right for us is nice too.

    P.S. Gloomtail? paper mario dragons are the best.
     
  6. Krimp

    Krimp VIP Supporter
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    Yup.
     
  7. Do Work Son

    Do Work Son New Member

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    I play a pretty decent Heavy so here are a few of my rules:

    Medics don't owe you anything
    Yes, you're a tank but you are NOT God. I've seen plenty of Heavies get pissed at me while playing a Medic when I switch and heal someone else for a push. A tank absorbs fire well but isn't always the best tool for every situation. As a Heavy I regularly absorb fire for Medics to charge ubers and tell them to uber someone else. If a sentry gun is more than 15 yards away you are awful at killing them - you should expect a demo take over in that case. If they enemy is pulling back (like on the bridge in Warpath) a pyro is far more effective at chasing them down than your slow Russian ass.

    Bottom line: while it's nice having a personal healing escort at all time good Medics will constantly rotate off you to heal more specialized classes for given situations. Get used to it - that's they way it's supposed to be. I'm not stroking my own ego but I do get a lot of Medic attention when I play a Heavy. I push hard and people recognize that but when they switch off I don't get pissed. If you mouth off at Medics with any class they typically won't pay much attention to you. When you mouth off as a Heavy just because they ubered a demo instead of you it really makes you look like a prick.

    Lead from the front
    If you want said medics to pay attention to you and help boost your K/D ratio then be at the front of any assault. You absorb more fire than any class and Medics can charge ubers far quicker with you in an assault than anyone else.

    Don't want to push because they have snipers? Well your Snipers won't be able to countersnipe if they're being picked off by every other class that should be gunning for YOU. Give your Snipers something else for the enemy to shoot at. I've died 8 fast times in a row before someone killed Batman when he kept picking me off around the same fucking corner. It worked, though. I eventually got past.

    Too many stickies around? Shoot them. I hate watching Heavies dance around stickies. Shoot the fucking things, don't be a pussy. Are they blowing up your sentries? Help your Engies and BLOW UP THE GRENADES.

    Spy checking isn't just for pyros
    You have a spray 'n pray gun, there's always ammo laying around. Use it. Don't keep complaining when you get knifed in the back constantly, you can spy check too. It's not easy when you're trying to push around corners and lead an assault but it's vital all the same.

    Location, location, location
    Playing a Heavy is 70% location, 20% luck, and 10% aiming. Yes, you're going to get picked off. Yes, you're going to get backstabbed. Yes, you're going to have entire stretches with no crit streaks. Being a successful Heavy involves being in the right place and pointed in the right direction. You don't have mobility, you don't have long range standoff firepower, and you certainly don't have subtlety. Like a knight in chess your best moments come when you've put yourself in a position to damage. Think of yourself as a sentry gun with wheels. Don't stand too close to tunnel walls and make it easy to soak up splash damage, always try position yourself to give your medic or support Demomen cover. They longer they stay alive the more damage gets done to the enemy.

    I always aim for the closest asshole. Sure there might be juicier targets like enemy Medics and revenge kills, those aren't half as important as killing the assholes right next to you who can be wiped out in two seconds of fire (you can also pick up their ammo and keep up sustained fire). A Pyro who gets past you can take out a good chunk of your team or cause them to fall back leaving you unsupported. Always shoot the closest asshole and you inflict more damage to the enemy and give more of your teammates a better chance of assaulting. That's your job. Once you draw a bead on someone don't be afraid to switch targets if you have a better chance of killing someone closer. Again, pick up their ammo and keep going.

    If you want to piss off your Medic the fastest way to do that is emerge from a tunnel or run around a corner with less than 50% health. When you die (and you most likely will if you're leading the charge) think about it as you slowly waddle back up to the front. The 5 seconds you spend regrouping and letting your Medic heal you before blindly charging can save your life and his. On maps like Warpath and Gravelpit I rarely go around corners without being fully healed, there's just too many lanes of fire. You'll only frustrate yourself and the poor guy trying to keep you alive.
     
  8. AGrue

    AGrue Guest

    Some very good points there. My personal rule for hp is I stay out of the line of fire if less than 150-200 while being healed, and always heal up to full at a dispenser if I won't have a medic on me. (I obviously will retreat with much less because that's when you're vulnerable.) Basically, you should be able to win a duel against another heavy assuming you fire first and he doesn't crit.
    On the other hand, in some places I will hide behind corners because of snipers. In particular pushing from 4th to last point on warpath. If we have good control, I'll try pushing up right side and fire into courtyard, but often I'll stay around the corner so that I can take out pyros, demos and spies trying to get behind our lines and/or fuck with our snipers. But this is only valid because it is still useful to the team.
    And yes, I fully agree that very often uber demos or pyros are better than heavies. One of my biggest pet peeves is medics who don't listen when I say "please don't uber me, I can't kill that gun, take a demo instead." I often find myself hoping that I'll get sniped before they trigger the uber.
     
  9. Guest

    The way I throw off snipers is by jumping around some corner I know they are checking with the shotgun, do a little dance and then go somwhere else. They see a heavy and get a hard on for the corner which buys me time to come across a different sniper line.

    and I disagree (only partialy) on the whole medic doesnt owe you anything concept, a good heavy/medic team is like a wrecking ball through the front lines that opens the space for the rest of the team. I can understand the frustration that occurs when you are pushing and doc stops to heal a scout...honestly, fuck the scout he can spawn and be back in 2 seconds and/or get health near by. Also there are certain places where people just need to realize sticking with the heavy for a minute just makes more sense. The greatest example (for me) is the roof of Badwater. I've cleared that roof of 7 or more sentries without an uber becasue doc stayed on me...but if they jump off to heal everyone else this is simply not possible. Part of being a good medic is healing everyone as best you can but part of being a great medic is letting people know your intentions...a lot of assumptions are made when a medic stays with you past giving a full over heal while there are others around...and that goes for any class not just heavy.

    that aside, I agree with the weapon grouping above (mini, shotty, fists) and my only real suggestion is if you are not spun up with the mini then you should have the shot gun out.
     
  10. Twane

    Twane New Member

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    Couple of tips:

    • [*:3205v9t6]The more accurate you are, the more damage you're doing, so try to be as accurate as possible.

      [*:3205v9t6]As a soldier & demo the heavy's minigun chews up ammo quickly, don't waste your ammo shooting at an uber or an enemy that's just too far away, the minigun is very inaccurate at long range.

      [*:3205v9t6]If possible, when enemies are bunched up together in one place, get a kritz medic to charge you up if you're in range, killing a group of 6-10 people in one kritz charge is an orgasm in a can, and will let your team push up.

      [*:3205v9t6]If a medic is healing you and you hear a scream, and suddenly the healing HUD disappears, you're instant reaction should be to turn around, spies like to stab medic/heavy pairs as much as flies fly around rotting stuff.

      [*:3205v9t6]NEVER take a ubercharge to kill a sentry if it's at long range, an uber demo can easily outdamage you when taking out sentries, if there is a sentry nest, he is the man.
     
  11. Primus Ave

    Primus Ave New Member

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    You guys did a good job at building this Heavy's Guide! I don't think i have much to add but i would like too since heavy class is my main class (beating all my other classes together , over 400h :p).

    - Best place for a heavy to attack is in closed areas like tunnels or sewers or vents because you just shoot strait.

    - Since you're at the front, you need a microphone to call it when the other team has uber and is pushing . (calling the right type of uber is important too , mean uber or kritz and the class (pyro or demo or soldier, etc)).

    - If you think the uber is not really dangerous, hide until it passes and shoot the followers behind while your team try to take the uber out.

    - Heavy has to charge up medics since he can take a lot of damage so he has to stay in the firing range.

    - While the ennemy is too far, just spam bullets from time to time in order to save your ammo (in case there is no dispenser right at your side). While the ennemy is getting bolder (closer to you), open fire until you take them down.

    - Forgot to mention to Always spin your mini-gun! except if you see an uber-guy coming and you have to run fast (uber-pyros are the worst for heavys , thought they tend to light us in fire and continue to push).

    - Minigun or natasha? In most of the maps(most of the time), i would go for minigun just because it hurts more and you can hit a volley of critz from times to times (really helpful even though , most of the time you waste it since your just firing aimlessly to let them know your there). Natasha is good for Open areas map like Orange cause scouts are running around too freely . But snipers are a plague there for heavies, beware.

    - Like Do Work son mentioned , Position Position Position (ok... it was location) . You have to know the best way around the map to avoid all those annoying snipers (who are the greatest treat to us ). Try to find one with closed areas ... like in 2forts , i often use sewers and go all around . In warpath, i like to flank the ennemy : as we just started the map and the battle has started for the middle point, i like to go behind the pillar on the other side team and shoot at the corridor exit so there is no more fresh ennemy forces coming out to capture the middle. I don't stay too long in the middle spawn , it depends on the situation though which takes experience to analyse and take the right choices hehe. (this is a guide, not a 100% perfect plan for every situation)

    - One thing i don't agree with the other heavy guides : Heavy can't take down a sentry gun. Heavy can! it's easy!! Just think about a heavy as a pyro but a little slower that can shoot bullets. 4 possibles situations :
    - 1sg up (0 engi on it): Shoot it from afar , should be easy to take down.
    - 1sg up (1 engi on it): The medic run first toward the sg while the heavy gets closer and take down the sg really fast then start shooting people around the moment the sg is down.
    - 1sg up (2 engi on it): Even at close range, it's near impossible to take down , i agree , so try to get around it and take down 1 engi at least if not both before you shoot the sg down.
    - 2sg up : Not much to do about it if they are aligned , even a medic can't push enough. BUT check if engies are watching them. often , there is only 1 engi , so shoot the sg that is unguarded or the closest one. possible options : find an other route to get closer or send a uber demo and follow behind the uber demo-medic combo.
    What is the advantage a heavy has over a demo while taking a SG? AMMO! it takes what , 50 ammo or less to take down a SG, 2 or 3 stickies. it depends on the demoman too btw :p

    - Always try to flank the ennemy
    - Always use your shotgun while running except if your about to turn a corner , jump while spinning your minigun so that when you land, you start shooting
    - Shoot the stickies on walls, ground, roof that you can (you have a lot of ammo , waste a lil so others walk safely)
    - Be kind to medics , if they get hurt , suggest a retreat so he can get health
    - Heavy isn't the answer to everything , an heavy alone is strong but not invincible
    - Be a team player
    - Tell others where you see sentries/teleports/dispensers and snipers if you get headshot :p (happens often)
    - Crouch often so you're one hard target for snipers or jump while running
    - When you get hurt, just don't stay at the front with 50hp or less , come back so a medic can charge up on you
    - Only reasons to die fast are : Sniper's heashot , spy's backstab , critz from other classes or a sg you haven't seen fast enough
    - You must learn to turn fast to defend your medic or follow a scout mouvments
    - If the medic can talk and tell you about a ennemy that you haven't seen , turn around and take him down since it might be a bigger treath than what you have in front of you ( like a demo taking is time placing is stickies at your feets hehe)

    Just wanna had that all heavies aren't born equal. So medics, if you see a heavy, check how he plays and how the communication is and you'll see if it's worth giving him more ubers. Heavy should be able to tell what type of ubers he need in order to do the best job. against a sg , normal uber... against peoples only, kritz works good half the time (since your not invulnerable nor your medic).

    There is no real secrets about an heavy's job. Experience is the key. Whatever if the heavy is slow , you're a moving Sentry Gun hehe!
     
  12. abidingDude2

    abidingDude2 New Member

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    I'd Quote all of what primus said because he knows his shit, but well thats just too much to quote. Go heavy go
     
  13. King

    King Guest

    Flanking is so important, every class needs it to be able to cause some chaos. I'm quite surprised about a flanking heavy though. :lol:
     
  14. Krimp

    Krimp VIP Supporter
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    I should probably update this later. It's pretty outdated.
     
  15. Primus Ave

    Primus Ave New Member

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    heavy's life
     

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  16. Krimp

    Krimp VIP Supporter
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    That looks about right. It's disappointing they gave almost every class a way to combat Heavies, then the Heavies themselves get trash during their update.
     
  17. Primus Ave

    Primus Ave New Member

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    it happens when it's one of the first classes to get updated. I'm not yet gonna give up on heavy though , gonna take more than that lol like a critical Demoman update haha
     
  18. Krimp

    Krimp VIP Supporter
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    Well, the Medic and Pyro updates greatly helped their respective classes. Same with Spy and Sniper. Scout was pretty bad, but Heavy got it the worst. It's sad when the best thing the Heavy got out of it was a taunt kill.
     
  19. Zind

    Zind KING OF CHAT
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    A taunt kill which can't even be used at the same time as his best (imo) unlock v_v
     
  20. Krimp

    Krimp VIP Supporter
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    I actually prefer the fists. But yeah, KGBs are his best. At least they're useful in melee sudden death.