Discussion in 'Left 4 Dead' started by Savage, Mar 25, 2009.
Shove is something I've thought long and hard about many times now so I'm curious to see where they go with this.
Shoving and reloading simultaneously is intentional by Valve (their playtesting determined that without it, regular hordes were nightmares), so what I'm envisioning is either diminished effectiveness of how far back zombies are disoriented, a "cooldown," or "fatigue" timer.
Valve is the only gaming company I'll give the benefit of the doubt, but this could drastically change the face of Versus for better or worse, I'm trusting them to do the right thing here.
EDIT: Just confirmed from an insider. It's fatigue. You get 4 swings, then the rate at which you can shove slows down.
I'm glad it appears to only affects those two modes, I can't imagine doing the harder campaign settings with reduced melee-ing.
First of all, I like how they say "small, but very large"... ... yeah. Anyway, I'm on the fence about this. Fair warning to expect a rant one way or the other after I've played with it.
Update released - servers being updated now.
Edit: Updates complete.
Seems like a good answer to closet camping without removing the closet. Probably make Boomers more effective too. Hopefully they ass a server side command to adjust how many swings you get. like sv_melee 04 is default or some shit. If not it will probably be added later on. Sorta like there is a crouch jump setting server side for TF2(which they need to make crouch shorter again... but that's a rant for another day.)
It is great they are trying to boost the percentage of full games played. Sure it is in small increments but every little bit counts and it adds up.
Oh my god that melee edit kicked my ass. Fuck.
I love this change. Doesn't "fix" closet camping but it actually makes common infected a threat as they should be.
After my VS game tonight I can say I hate the new melee change. If they keep it then it should be more then just four swings because in a horde you need more then just four swings to have a good time.
Agreed, that seems pretty extreme. I think it should be a graduated scale...6 or 8 at full speed, and then slowing down from there.
I've got mixed opinions on it as well. Definitely going to take some getting used to at least, whether I'm OK with it or not is yet to be determined.
It might be nice to see some connection to health. Maybe the more hurt you are the more you can shove. Even though that makes little sense realistically it might balance things a bit for someone who's getting beaten down too much.
The melee limit does make it more important for the team to stay together which is good, if people would stay together. I definitely didn't get used to it this evening maybe I'll be more comfortable with it in the coming days.
I got used to only swinging a couple times and then blasting, but jesus christ when you have to learn the melee change it's fucking terrible. Like, I'm sitting a corner, minding my own business, and suddenly there's a little recharge circle and hordes are just hitting me. I mean, wtf? They need to scale back this thing. I understand they needed to nerf the melee, but they nerfed it big time. Maybe if they were more gentle, and less... aggressive, we would all enjoy our experience a little bit more.
I think they'll probably tone the nerf down a bit....and/or introduce a server-side cvar to let server owners set the melee rate. Personally, I'd like to see some middle ground. 6-8 hits, and then the slowdown.
I was shocked at first, but after a full game I see little to no difference to playing with reduced melee. Its a new skill to learn, but moving away from melee spamming to actually using your pistols is a great move. Melee is where it should be, a last resort. I hope they don't make any further changes.
To clarify, I think this change is good and is needed. The extent of its strength is open for debate, but I do greatly like how you should multitask your gunfire with your melee.
Let's play with this a bit as it is now and try to learn from it.
I'm still not sold on the new melee slowdown yet. I think at full health you should be able to sustain a higher rate of melee. BUT it should get worse the lower your health is. This would get people to use their med packs vs point whoring.
Also now the AI makes a huge impact with pipe bombs. One team gets a shitload while the other team gets 2.
I played a bit more this morning, the melee thing isn't bad but it's definitely frustrating at times when you are suddenly mobbed. Melee spamming is usually not my thing anyway so I'm adjusting to it faster probably than others might.
It could certainly spell doom for a team that's had to use health packs etc and has nothing left to heal themselves after they've been unable to push back a horde due to the limit.
The only tweak I'd like to see added, which was an issue before the nerf, is a reduction in the slowdown when a member of the horde is near. No matter how good of a shot you are, you'll get slowed to a crawl if a member of the horde is within a foot of you. I understand that they will be grabbing you and your going to slow down, I just wish there was a little more lead way when it comes to the degree at which it happens.
Right now the slowdown mechanic can be sporadic and very uneven. If I melee the only horde on me, the slowdown should be removed immediately and allow me to drive through the staggered zombie unless I'm hurt badly. As it stands now punching a zombie that doesn't result in a killing blow simply animates them away from you but they still can't be run over without slowing/stopping you.
A modification to that would be nice as well. It would be nice if you could push your way through a horde a little easier depending on how big/deep it is but you would still obviously take damage (mostly from behind).
I am glad they sped up the recharge on the smoker's tongue in versus though, that was annoyingly slow in the past.
I'm thinking full health should be 8-10ish melee before slowdown. then when you are in red it's 4. It can slowly degrade between the two numbers depending on health.
But a status bar is needed.....so you can tell how tired you are getting.